November 18, 2020

November 18, 2020

On Wednesday’s Mark Levin Show, while the legal challenge is an uphill battle there are still serious legal issues pending. The premise of the equal protection clause argument in some of the Trump legal challenges has yet to be heard – specifically by the Supreme Court of the United States. There is no incentive to relent at this time. Conversely, giving up prematurely would be immoral and can impact all future elections. Then, for months it was reported that President Trump was sabotaging the election by suppressing USPS and removing/replacing mailboxes – this was a lie. The media turns a blind eye to the DOJ’s warning that Russia was attempting to influence the election in favor of Joe Biden. There is virtual silence on the success of Trump’s Operation Warp Speed to accelerate the testing of a COVID-19 vaccine. Interestingly, Biden and the media have no explanation as to why is there an uptick in coronavirus cases when most Americans are wearing masks. Later, Daniel Horowitz of the Blaze called in to discuss the anomalies in Georgia’s vote totals where their previous ballot rejection rate was 6.5%. Oddly, the 2020 election, with mail-in ballots, only had 0.2% and had many more ballots cast and still had a lower rejection rate. Horowitz added that the Constitution precisely names which day Presidential elections can be held and no state court has the power to alter that. Afterward, Sen. Kelly Loeffler calls in with an update on her runoff campaign in Georgia. Loeffler confirmed that anyone caught moving to Georgia just to vote will be referred to the State’s Attorney General. Finally, Harvard Law Professor Laurence Lessig joins the program to discuss Lessig’s column critiquing this program’s comments on Article II of the Constitution. Lessig agreed with Mark Levin’s point that Article II grants the state legislatures the power over the manner of the selection of electors.


Pfizer Says COVID Vaccine 95 Percent Effective, Will Submit for Approval ‘Within Days’

The Blaze
Horowitz: Doesn’t pass Joe Biden’s ‘smell test’: With 2 major Georgia county errors, how can we trust the election results?

Washington Examiner
Student loan forgiveness would be a bailout for elites

Report: Joe Biden Considering Teachers’ Union Leaders for Education Secretary

Fox Business
‘The Squad’ pushes Biden to cancel student debt — here’s how they’d personally benefit

Issues & Insights
Are Pandemic Lockdowns A Dry Run For The ‘Climate Crisis’?

Fox Business
Petition circulating at Harvard to stop former Trump administration officials from attending, teaching or speaking at the university

Report: Republican Sens. Cornyn, Grassley Hint at Immigration Deal with Joe Biden

USA Today
State legislatures do not have the power to veto the people’s choice in an election

The podcast for this show can be streamed or downloaded from the Audio Rewind page.

Image used with permission of Getty Images / Megan Varner

Rough transcript of Hour 1

Hour 1 Segment 1

You know, it amazes me we just keep hearing even friends of mine on radio, friends of mine on TV, less Trump shows a hundred thousand or so, you know, ballots that can be switched. It’s got to give it up. Just get to the evidence, the evidence here and it’s not there. You don’t have the evidence. The evidence does. Are these people looking at these lawsuits? Where they’re trying to get them to the Supreme Court, equal protection violations that affect God knows how many ballots, I have no idea, but a lot. Equal protection arguments taken right out of the 14th Amendment and right out of Bush versus Gore, the fact that some state courts or federal district judges are going appellate courts may reject them, although I haven’t heard many appellate courts get involved yet. That’s not the final say. I would never want these lawyers or these radio hosts or these TV commentators representing me if I’m accused of anything. Would you, Mr. Producer? That’s unbelievable to me. You see lawyers who fight to the end in death penalty cases where you go, wait a minute, that guy’s guilty. So these lawyers, it’s unless you can show me one hundred thousand ballots, I’ll switch. There’s pointless. And I’ve already said, you know, months ago, weeks ago that there’s no avenue here. Really, maybe there isn’t. But it would be nice to hear from the Supreme Court at least once, right? Deadlines are coming November, twenty third, there’s a November, 20, 30 deadline. What they’re not telling you is those are statutory deadlines, but still. Congress has the final say. And so states need to be very careful when they’re certifying votes, if they’re still serious, pending lawsuits, if they’re still serious questions. About the manner in which votes were taken. That’s why Congress counts the votes and has the final say. So there’s a lot more here than these commentators are saying. Now, that said, it’s an uphill battle. I got it. But a lot of battles are uphill battles. And win, lose or draw, you fight the battle. They keep saying there aren’t enough votes, aren’t enough votes in the system. George is very tight now. We’re going to have a recount in some of the counties in and around Milwaukee. That’s very tight. Twenty thousand votes. Pennsylvania is a big issue. We’re waiting for the Supreme Court on that issue. So what is Trump supposed to do today? Say, you know what? We even though we see them finding ballots in Georgia, I’m going to drop that, even though there’s a few counties in Milwaukee that concern us, I’m going to drop that. And even though the Supreme Court, may I say, may take up one or two of our cases out of Pennsylvania, I’m going to drop that. Now, why would he do that? Why would he do that? Moreover, there’s a moral issue here. We have elections going forward. This has to be fixed. And we need the Supreme Court to put its foot down. And they blow off this Dominion voter issue. I sent this to a couple of my friends at Fox. The list is getting smaller and smaller nonetheless on the news side. And I said, hey. NBC, The New York Times. The public broadcasting system, the Canadian Broadcasting System. All have done stories on troubles are concerns with the Dominion voting system and systems like it. And by the way, Democrats wrote letters to these companies and to companies that fund these companies, also raising concerns about it. And the latest concern raised by PBS with the seven or eight minutes. Segment on it was October twenty six, where is everybody on this? Oh, wow, that’s Jestina. Can you prove can you prove that it’s problematic? They need the ability, ladies. And let me put it to you this way. The Trump campaign doesn’t have the power. To go knock on the door at a state election board or the secretary of state and say, hey, can we look and look at the at the Dominion, a voting system, they have got a house and they shut the door. Now, if you’re a former litigator or you’re a serious lawyer, whether you’re on radio or TV, can’t you explain that to the public? That they don’t have independent subpoena power, that the government doesn’t have to listen to a damn thing they say, and you keep demanding evidence, where’s the evidence? Where’s the evidence? The evidence is this is a problematic system that’s been reported on by the media repeatedly as recently as October. Twenty sixth, we’ve seen some evidence of this with six thousand votes going the wrong way. But we have Democrat secretaries of state, not in every state, obviously Democrat governors, some Republicans who won’t let them look. And so they’re going to court. They want to look. So stop saying, where’s the evidence, where’s the evidence on the menu voting when they’re trying to get the information, but you can’t even get Questers. There’s a reason to look. It’s incredible. And then they keep telling us the cyber security chief resign and he said. A week or 10 days ago, shortly after the election, that this was the the most secure election in American history, American history. How does he know that? So you see, ladies and gentlemen, four years ago, the Russians were involved and they elected Donald Trump, this time because they say Biden is the winner. Because they say Biden, the Russians had no interest, Chinese had no interest, North Koreans, the Iranians. Most secure election in American history. Were they not telling us a month ago? That the FBI director not tell us a month ago that the Russians were trying to get involved to help Biden against Trump, did we not learn from the attorney general, the Department of Justice a month ago that the Chinese were trying to get into our system to help Biden? All of a sudden, none of that happened. It’s just like the post office day after day, you heard stories in the Democrats coming out how Donald Trump was sabotaging this post office. So the mail in ballot, the mail in voting that the Democrats were pushing at a massive scale. Let there be all kinds of postal problems with it. Have you heard of any postal system problems, presidents not raising any. The Trump campaign litigation’s not raising that was a lie. The Russia collusion was a lie. The Postal Service stuff is a lie. Dominion voting problems, that’s not a lie, they’ve had problems in the past, they have ties to the Venezuelan communist regime. They had ties to Hugo Chavez, who specifically used the system to fix the outcome of the election. Do you have proof? Do you what proof? Do you have evidence? Far more information than we had on Russian collusion. That resulted in a criminal investigation. So don’t lecture me, radio hosts, don’t lecture me, TV commentators and former federal judge prosecutors. It’s pathetic. Pathetic. Pfizer, 95 percent. They’ve moved it up from 90 percent to 95 percent, edging out. Another pharmaceutical company. In terms of the the efficacy. Of their vaccine. Ninety five percent, and they said they’re ready to go in a few days. To the FDA to get emergency clearance. Can you imagine that? Can you imagine that? 15, 16 days after the election. Moderna ninety four point five, Fizer ninety five percent, they’re ready to go before the end of the year, they’re ready to go in December. And we had to hear. Over and over again from Joe Biden. And his people in the Democrats, including governors like Cuomo, the dummy. That this was all politicized, that Trump was trying to get this done really too fast. I even asked him if I want an interview. You ever hear anything like this? Trump’s trying to actually save lives, not watch people die with masks on. For what now, the seventh, eighth, ninth day in a row, I’ll say the same thing, how come we have such an upsurge in this virus when more and more people, almost all people are wearing masks? Well, they won’t answer that. Well, they they great scientists. Wear masks, I mean, hundred years ago, they could have told you that, but science has come so far with the bureaucracy, all of these vaccines that are coming about. The Trump administration provided capital for almost all of them, offered it to all of them, and it’s also paid for the production of the vaccines, the syringes for the vaccines, the canisters that carry the vaccines, the transport of the vaccines in the freezer, trucks and and so forth. This has already been plotted out, all of it. And so now they attack Trump because he won’t coordinate with Biden now. So Biden has spent a year trying to undermine the whole approach that Trump has been taking to get vaccines and therapeutics, because he said, look, that’s the only way we’re going to save lives. We can wear masks to wear blue in the face. We can shut down all of our businesses until we become a third world republic. But we need to we need to treat people and we need to protect them from the virus. That was always his priority. And he was always attacked for. Always attack for. And now what they’re trying to do, I saw Jake Tapper on CNN, this guy really is a sleazeball of the highest order. He’s not alone, of course. With Falchi, who is a media whore, and they’re going back and forth like ping pong players. Isn’t it important that the Trump administration coordinate of a transition with the Biden administration incoming, of course. And of course, we know what CNN tried to do to Trump when he was running, when he was elected and when he was sworn in immediately part of the the mob that was trying to destroy the there was no transition. But here’s the dirty little secret you need to know. The fact of the matter is the same bureaucrats. The same bureaucrats who’ve been directed, the same military personnel who’ve been directed by this president. To do certain things to ensure that the vaccine is delivered and that there’s a process in place will be there when Joe Biden takes over, all the hard work has been done, all the hard work has been done, the development, the funding mechanisms, the testing in coordination with the Trump administration, the decisions about who’s going to first get the vaccines efforts and funding being made. So it’s possible that every single American who wants to have the vaccine will have the vaccine by April. Unimaginable, except the president kept saying it and he was interrupted repeatedly by reporters. Foushee didn’t do this. Let me repeat, Foushee didn’t do this. Trump and his administration more generally did this. Much more when I return, I’ll be right back.

Hour 1 Segment 2

Andrew Hitt is the chairman of the Republican Party of Wisconsin, and he just tweeted out breaking. Wisconsin Elections Commission, after seeing President Trump’s recount petition in objections, is trying to change the recount manual at an emergency meeting tonight at 6:00 p.m. So it’s going on now to make objections harder to make. This must be stopped. This is what I mean, you have conservatives on TV and radio, you Republican. Let’s get it over with. This is corruption, ladies, and I don’t care if there’s no votes involved in this. This is corruption. Pure and simple. They want to be rolled by the Democrat Party or party or roll by Republicans within the Republican Party. I mean, the American people in this case, the people of Wisconsin, have to know that this process is a legitimate one. We have to put Humpty Dumpty back together again after the Democrats spent all year. Breaking eggs all over the place with scores of lawsuits. I mean, it’s it’s it’s very, very serious what’s taking place in this country, on the one hand, they say, hey, everyone has the right to vote, but if you have corruption and the officials involved, what are the judges or justices on the Supreme Court like Pennsylvania or justices on the U.S. Supreme Court that pretend nothing’s happening and ignore a provision of the Constitution or governors can run roughshod over state legislatures or bureaucrats could make changes to undermine a president. The United States is following the rules, coughing up three million dollars to have recounts in certain of the counties. And then they Wisconsin Elections Commission. I don’t know this firsthand. It’s based on this tweet by Andrew Heyward, chairman of the Republican Party of Wisconsin, decide to make changes after the fact. What are we supposed to do here? Oh, let’s get it over with, let’s unite. Where’s the transition to help Joe? Kind of B.S. says this. Wherever they’ve had problem with million votes, whenever they’ve had problems with this Dominican Dominion machine and so forth, they’ve changed. Canada now has paper ballots, period. They won’t even use the machine where their headquarters is based. In Canada, most of the countries in industrialized Europe will not tolerate mail in votes at all. Some of them just for military. That’s if we are expanding mail in ballots. Why? Why? Because we’re institutionalizing corruption so only one party can win. How do I know that? How do I know that commentators on radio and TV because look at California, a one game party state where people are trying to escape. I’ll be right back.

Hour 1 Segment 3

Daniel Horowitz is one of the great writers over at Blaze. Daniel Horowitz, you looked at a couple of counties outside of Georgia. What did you find in the Georgia statistics? You really dug in deeply. Well, it’s great to be back with you. And to quote Joe Biden in 2000 during the Gore Bush fight, does it pass the smell test? And it. Hmm, that we just lose him. We lost him at the smell test. I saw Karl Rove with his whiteboard, I think was yesterday, the day before, telling us that the numbers, there were no anomalies in the numbers in these big cities. They were very close, very similar votes. So I went down to come on here and they because looking at the wrong places wouldn’t be the first time. Probably won’t be the last time. Have we lost them forever, Mr. Producer? We’re trying to get them back. All right. So the bottom line is Daniel looked at some of these counts and he said there are anomalies here. Something isn’t right here. Go ahead, Daniel. Pick up where you left off on the smell test. Sure. So you look at these counties like DeKalb and Fulton County around Atlanta, and what you find is the following dynamic in about five of those counties where the population has grown. What is going on, Rick? Well, this is a hell of a way to conduct an interview. Man, our technology sucks on this, this network. I’m just being honest with you. Whether it’s phone calls or whether it’s having a phone call discussion with somebody, I can never be 100 percent sure. I can just never be 100 percent sure. Let me see if I can find his article here as we do live and and national. And of course, I can’t see this mess here. You’d understand. What he’s finding is that the number of votes that are coming out of some of these counties make no sense. And you have enormous votes for Biden, many more votes than you had for Obama, many more votes than you had for Clinton. Maybe try a different line, rich, maybe we can get them on a different line, OK? And it makes no sense. Now, this article by Daniel Horowitz, and he’s not the only one who make points like this, it just in one ear and out the other with the massive media. So I have an idea. For these lockdowns, one of the media show us how to do it, lockdown, CNN lockdown, MSNBC lockdown, so many of these media places that have never suffered from lockdowns the way so much of the rest of the economy has. Maybe that’s the way to do it. Maybe that’s the way we can actually get some facts out. I’m going to move on until we get Daniel back, if we get Daniel back. OK, sorry, folks. All I’m doing is running a national radio show. One last try, Daniel, one last try. Already, Mark. Sorry about that. I don’t know if this is the Dominion software. All right. We don’t have time for jokes. We may lose you again. Jump right into your article. Sure. So what we’re seeing is that buiding share of the vote grew by 35 to 46 percent in these counties when the road was on TV the other day with this whiteboard. And he said, look, Atlanta, the numbers aren’t that different from with from the past election, with Hillary Clinton or Obama. He’s going through Philadelphia. You’re looking at these outside counties, around these cities, and you’re saying, oh, yes, there are Mark changed changes, right? There absolutely are. For example, in Gwinnett County, you know, buiding got two hundred forty one thousand votes. Obama only got one hundred twenty nine thousand in 2008. And remember, Obama had a very sophisticated ground game. He very much excited the African-American base in a lot of these metro counties. And Carl pretending that there’s that is not these anomalies. And well, I think what they’re counting on is the fact that a lot of the Georgia suburbs have soured on Republicans in recent years. But here’s the problem with that. If you look at Trump’s vote total, it did go up slightly. He did not slide back. So there is no evidence of crossover of this massive crossover. What there is evidence of is it insane expansion of the electoral pie? Just to be clear, you’re saying Trump didn’t lose votes. Just there was this massive outpouring for Joe Biden. Exactly. Trump actually gained a little bit. We all agree across the board. It was a higher turnout election than last election and maybe even the ones before that. But what we’re talking about, a 46 percent increase for Biden’s share of the vote versus Hillary in Gwinnett County. And we’re finding these similarities elsewhere, but we’re not seeing this anywhere else in the country where Biden didn’t need to win. Now, you do have areas in the country where from one election to another, there’s a radical swing. So, for example, in the Rio Grande Valley in southern Texas, Trump flipped certain counties or swung them by 30, 40 percentage points. But the evidence there demonstrates that it was crossover. It was predominantly Hispanic voters that were sick of the Central American invasion there, and they switched to vote Republican here. We’re not seeing it coming out of Trump. We’re seeing an entirely new electorate that somehow Obama never discovered in the inner suburbs around Atlanta. All of a sudden, you have, what did you say, 40 percent? Forty six percent in Gwinnett County, 35 percent more in DeKalb and in pretty much in all of them. The same story in the 30s and 40s. And is this over Clinton or Obama or both? Both over. Over all of them. And here’s another way that I don’t know how Karl Rove explains that. Well, here’s another way to look at it. If you look at the entire pie. So the population did grow since the 2008 election. So so Obama won 35 percent or 36 percent of the electorate or the entire population in DeKalb County. So if you take the entire population of every human being living there. Thirty six percent of them voted for Obama, 40 percent of them voted for Biden. Again, Obama had a sophisticated ground game. The concern here is that Biden maybe had a sophisticated underground game. What do you think happened? Well, what I think happened is this the mail in ballots, obviously is where most of the fraud always has been. The Carter Baker commission recognized that even before we had mass mail in ballots. Let’s be clear about this. The Carter Baker commission warned in 2005 about mail in ballots. You had media organizations in the past from The New York Times and others warning about mail in ballots. You had security people in the past warning about mail in ballots and all of a sudden mail in ballots are fine. You even had The Washington Post in August published an article talking about mail and fraud during the 1864 election with McClellan. I mean, everyone knew that this was a problem. And in the lead up to the election, all of the liberal blogs were complaining. The New York Times complained about this, that Biden is going to have a bunch of votes thrown out because you have all these first timers that aren’t used to filling out absentee ballots that are going to make mistakes. And last time around, in twenty sixteen six point four percent of mail in ballots in Georgia were rejected. And that’s that’s not a we’re not hoping for that. That’s just natural. This year it was point two percent. So that’s about two tenths of one percent versus almost six and a half percent. And you have more way more people using mail in ballots. And you have places in the country, not just in Georgia, using mail in ballots that aren’t even used to using mail in ballots. Now, something doesn’t smell right. So you’ll hear commentator Daniel Horowitz say, well, bring us the evidence and show us that it’s going to change the vote. Is that how this works with individuals who don’t have subpoena power? Aren’t they doing exactly what they’re supposed to do, bring lawsuits, try and do discovery, but the courts in many cases are shutting them down? Well, that’s exactly what Joe Biden told Delaware media 20 years ago. He said, look, you know, at the end of the day, they, meaning Gore wants to know, is it fair? Does it pass the smell test? And they believe that that took a certain judicial process. And the bottom line with Maylands is that unless you have someone going through and verifying the qualifications of each one, you’re not going to discover any insidious acts of third party ballot harvester’s with four signatures or addresses that are wrong or people who moved out of the state. That’s not something you’re going to get with, just an automatic recount. And shouldn’t the people know that most of the chaos here is a direct result of the Democrat Party in the Biden campaign and their surrogates bringing litigation for months and months and months and creating havoc in these various states? What’s funny is Chris Wallace during the first debate actually made that point and said we might not know who won the election for many, many days. Everyone understood that, whether you agreed with it or not, once the Democrats placed a significant portion of the electorate on mail in ballots, this was just going to be a different election and it would take longer. And now after the election, they just look at us like we’re from Mars and say, hey, it’s over with us. And we know who’s who the winner, what is this business of taking so long, but they’re the ones who made that. Now, correct me if I’m wrong, there’s only one party that goes in the court or has a secretary of state or a a board of elections that seeks to and in fact, in many cases does eliminate signature requirements, signature comparison requirements. Postal dating extends counting, wants to expand. The earlier the earlier you vote, the better you vote the lady account, the better it is. In other words, trying to take all the the protective safeguards out of the process and push more and more people away from in-person voting where you have serious safeguards. I mean, it doesn’t make sense. But what this broader concern about election fraud really portends is what I call governing fraud, which is what Justice Alito warned about last week in a speech that we’ve never seen, a period of time where so much is being decided through executive fiat. And we’re seeing this with the covid regulations as well. But it’s the same process that they used used to change the electoral process as well as the same pretext. It’s funny how covid is an excuse to suspend liberty. It’s an excuse to let out criminals, and it’s also an excuse to upend our electoral process. You know, near the end of the program, in the third hour, we’re going to have Professor Lessig on the program. Ever hear of Harvard law Professor Lessig? Brilliant man. It’s a brilliant man who wrote a USA Today piece. He’s a leftist, but he’s an honest man who tries to be state legislatures, do not have the power to veto the people’s choice in an election. Now, that’s an interesting argument. But I have never said. The state legislature should appoint their own electors. I agree with where Alito is, and I’ve been saying this for months, those who cast a ballot under the election laws that were in place as passed by the state legislatures are casting constitutional ballots. That’s what you decide who’s electors go into the Electoral College and vote. You can’t have rogue courts, rogue secretaries of state, rogue governors, rogue state board of elections making decisions at the last minute. And by the way, he argues correctly, November 3rd is the date. That’s the date set by law for when elections are to occur. OK, I agree with that. All these changes going on about counting votes later and no signatures and no postal dates, they apparently don’t agree with that, correct? No, absolutely. And unfortunately, not all brilliant men understand the Constitution. And I think you just laid out both the constitutional argument, but also the the statutory argument that federal law in this began in 1845 sets the Election Day for that first to Tuesday, which this year is November 3rd, and you cannot count ballots that are not pursuant to law. So what’s funny is how they don’t seem to have a problem when courts step in, when governors or secretaries of states to step in. But somehow the legislative body, which is most representative of the people, but also vested with the most constitutional authority over this process, somehow they have nothing. They have no authority whatsoever. And like you said, we’re not the ones that broke the system or are trying to override it. We’re trying to rectify it and say, look, if the state legislatures were cut out of this process at the front end, so it’s their job to fix it at the back end. And otherwise, that provision is utterly meaningless in the Constitution, isn’t it? It certainly is. And plenary authority is a very strong word that the courts have used in the past to describe the state legislature’s power. And I would argue that in an academic way, they actually could veto it. I mean, they actually could do that. It’s not only could it wasn’t what I was arguing, because when he says no, he says, oh, that violates this and know and the electors, you can’t have electors changing their positions. And I argue that and has nothing to do with anything. You know, when you have to go down that route, you’ve already lost the argument, if you know what I mean. Exactly. And again, the court, as I said last time in 1892, said explicitly the Supreme Court that this power holds a weight regardless of whatever state law or state Supreme Court has said. You know, for example, states want to say, you know what, we’re going to allocate the electors based on congressional district like Nebraska and Maine do. Every state could do that. They could do that. I mean, that is their power. The courts have said that. But what we’ve seen with the left is the only like the precedent from the past that they agree with. So it’s very decisis unless they disagree with it. Mm hmm. All right, my friend, I want to thank you very, very much and keep it up. It’s very important. Take care. God bless. Take care. God bless. We’ll be right back.

Hour 1 Segment 4

All right, I wanted to talk about this very quickly. Some of these ideas popping around, like getting rid of student debt, getting rid of student debt, so people go in and they get that. Some of them get a lot of debt. And some of the people who get that really aren’t even applying the money to their college or university education. Sometimes they’ll buy cars, sometimes they’ll pay off bills. There have been stories written about this in the past, a ton of them. But whatever whatever the goal here constantly on the left is to eliminate accountability and responsibility. So now we owe people who went to college, even people went to Ivy League colleges, whatever. Now we owe them the American taxpayer. We owe them somehow. We weren’t there when they took out the loan, they didn’t ask our permission and now it’s on our shoulders. So the cost shifting to you and me now, many of you went to college yesterday and you paid your way or you found a way to pay your way or your parents paid your way or you went on scholarship, whatever it was. Many of you worked down the debt, paid off your debt. Fine. Two thirds of the people in this country never went to a graduated from a four year college program. And so many of them earn less than the people who actually went to college. That’s the statistics. So people who earn less will be paying off the loans of people who now earn more and who took those loans on their own. Now, nobody’s paying off your car loans and nobody’s paying off your mortgage. Nobody’s paying off all your loans. Why are they doing this? Why is this a special deck that you and I are supposed to pay? I will explain this because there’s a reason for this.